K-Pop Idols

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41

I understand the concern about Sims 4-style DLC fragmentation. I also would not want inZOI to end up with isolated systems that do not connect properly with the base game.

But I do not fully agree that DLC should never introduce gameplay. I think there is a difference between locking a basic core system behind DLC and making a deep optional expansion for a specific playstyle.

For example, general fame, reputation, social media, performances, schedules and career improvements should ideally be useful in the base game too. Kjun’s roadmap already mentions K-pop and stage performance content, including stages, themed environments, idol styling, K-pop dance/performance motions and superstar performance events:

https://forum.playinzoi.com/t/topic/8256

But a much deeper idol-focused system with agency rules, trainee-to-debut progression, comeback promotions, fan signs, dating scandals, variety shows, paparazzi and idol dorms could be big enough to justify a DLC, especially if not every player wants that kind of intense idol gameplay.

inZOI is currently still an Early Access game sold at a discounted price. I do not think we can realistically expect the developers to keep expanding every large gameplay fantasy forever while keeping everything inside the base game price. A DLC can also help fund more specific systems for players who actually want them.

To me, the best solution would be a hybrid model: shared foundations in free/base updates, and deeper optional career expansions as DLC. That way the base game still improves for everyone, but players who want more detailed idol gameplay can support and access that extra depth without forcing it on everyone.

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42

I think that’s a very nice take tbh, even though I hadn’t thought about it before. I completely agree that Sims 4 suffered a lot due to the DLCs having to be almost standalone games (+ basegame) in some cases, which led to many bugs which were up to today never treated with proper patches and fixes.

I’d be totally fine if the devs decided for future inZOI dlcs to include one new world, premade households for said world, cosmetic items for CAZ and build mode. In my opinion, this would also make the game even more accessible for a wider range of players, as those dlcs could focus more heavily on authentic cities / towns / areas. This could be a nice way to integrate different cultures better, not like the latest dlcs of the Sims 4 did, where the world looked nice but lacked cultural depth. Players would be able to decide whether they’re interested in each culture and world, without having to spend a lot of money on all of them, just to get some minor, not well-working new game systems.

Another reason why adding all deep systems to the base game instead of dlcs would be a good idea: They’d be implemented without introducing new bugs related to specific combinations of certain dlcs only. Once a game has exceeded a certain number of dlcs available, this inevitably becomes an ongoing issue. They could however, use base game systems / animations, etc. with dlc related items and objects, which would give every dlc a unique selling point too.

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43

In my opinion Inzoi should take Sims 3 as an example not Sims 4. @HeinziDerHeld @Minthyuyu

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44

Yes, exactly. That is why I mentioned that I don’t want a fragmented dlc system as in Sims 4. Because this also includes current EA’s greed and laziness towards the game. I do NOT want inZoi to copy that dlc policy from Sims 4. I only meant that I am not opposed to the idea of having dlc, that include gameplay, if the base game already has the foundation for that dlc in itself

Sims 3 did it well in my opinion too. (because it was still Maxis actually working on it. Not the fake-maxis that works on Sims 4)

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45

While fragmentation is my biggest concern, the other concern is that DLC’s don’t get revisited for updates mainly b.c their primary goal was to cash grab. Even now the sims market place doesn’t have anyone selling a different type of mermaid tail or pet outfit, b.c it could run the risk of being DLC for DLC (they may release one day). It makes it harder to expand or sell more content of a DLC without it being a DLC for a DLC and people complaining that it is.

I agree with you that they cannot expand forever into everything the players want. And i am not asking them too. I am looking at other games, like:

  • Minecraft
  • No Man Sky
  • Deep Rock Galactic
  • Stardew Valley

All games that are different, and all monetize differently, but all managed to not monetize any gameplay features. I want to point at minecraft b.c it is so sandboxed you can ignore almost anything you hate without the devs needing to do it for you by way of a DLC opt in option. Even if you hate digging or mobs, they have cheats in the game to get around it.

I look at Inzoi who already handles schools well, you can rabbit hole it, or play it live. The idol career could easily be that without the need of a DLC opt in option. Players either rabbit hole it, or play the experience, this should be all careers across the bored. It gives rabbit holes a purpose, and allows players to opt in or out of the challenge of live careers.

While also allowing devs to say 5 or 10 years later, hey lets tweak the idol system to accommodate occults living a double life as an idol, and it be possible b.c its not attached to a DLC that isn’t allowed to talk outside of its DLC.

Think of it this way. Say the base game (EXAMPLE ONLY) added animal farming and all their gameplay mechanics. I can live in dowon, own a cow or pig, and live off the little plot I own.

However, if I buy the farming DLC, it would introduce:

  • A farm world with larger plots to live on
  • Lore that expands the Inzoi universe
  • Land I can explore and find secrets in
  • Have a world full of farming zoi’s
  • introduce a hook to encourage me to explore the world

The DLC would not introduce new gameplay, the base game update did that, it offers a whole new culture, world and adds a new place to live. Think:

  • sims 4: starangerville experience, it added no gameplay, but it offered something to do in the world
  • Time princess: Every book was a new world with a new story to enjoy
  • Kingdom hearts: Every world was a different map to explore

Its how traveling works in the real world. You pay to immerse yourself in the different culture and experience something new.

Even dropping a cosmetic DLC works b.c it isn’t gameplay. They drop a 70’s fashion catalog (EXAMPLE ONLY) that unlocks more fashion or furniture to buy in game. and it doesn’t have to be a one time only situation, they could easily go the FFXIV route of just keeping a cosmetic shop up with random fashion items they drop once every six months or so. The shop is non intrusive and only found if you want to find it.

I do not believe that locking gameplay behind a DLC is a good way to let players opt into or out of things. Especially when the sandbox like Minecraft has shown if you just provide players with the proper sandbox tools, you wouldn’t need to charge them an opt in service fee.

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46

I understand the concern, especially when it comes to Sims 4-style fragmentation. I also do not want inZOI to split every small mechanic into isolated paid packs that never interact properly with the rest of the game.

But I do not think the other game examples fully prove that gameplay should never be part of DLC.

FFXIV, for example, does have an optional cosmetic shop, but it also has paid expansions with major gameplay content. Dawntrail is a paid expansion, and it includes playable content, a higher level cap, new jobs and battle-system updates. So FFXIV is actually closer to a hybrid model: core game updates, paid expansions with gameplay, and optional cosmetics.

Minecraft is also complicated. Java/core updates are free, but the Minecraft Marketplace still sells maps, add-ons, mods, modpacks and even new game-like experiences. So even there, monetization is not purely cosmetic across every version of the game.

I think the main issue is not whether DLC may ever contain gameplay. The issue is whether the gameplay is a basic core feature that should belong to everyone, or a deep optional expansion for a specific fantasy.

For inZOI, I would still prefer shared foundations in the base game: fame, reputation, social media, performances, schedules, career progression and basic idol/stage-performance content. But a very deep idol expansion with agencies, trainee-to-debut progression, comeback systems, fan signs, scandals, idol dorms, variety shows and world tours could reasonably be DLC if it builds on those base systems rather than being isolated from them.

I think the better goal is not “no gameplay in DLC ever,” but “no fragmented, abandoned systems.” DLC gameplay can be fair if the foundation remains in the base game, the expansion is substantial enough to justify its price, and the systems continue to interact with future updates.

As a note here: I can agree to disagree in that matter. Whether the devs decide to make it a separate DLC or included content is up to them. A better Idol system is at least already in the works and we can see what exactly it will bring and if it will meet expectations.

Another note: I never played much Sims 4 because I disliked it from the start. I think we should stop thinking that the inZOI devs will make the same mistakes as EA before they even release the full version and have some faith in them​:four_leaf_clover:

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47

Ah my intention was not to say “gameplay should never be part of DLC” my reason for highlighting the other games is to highlight that a game like Inzoi does not need to sell gameplay DLC. The expansion packs in FFXIV work for how that game is set up. FFXIV only releases 1 expansion a year, and every single expansion expands the world map as a whole. I can’t skip hevansward and just buy dawntrail, you have to own them all. There expansion are a far cry from the monetization DLC we know Inzoi is most likely going to lean into.

Which is why I only highlighted the discretion of the FFXIV shop and not how they release expansions, b.c I don’t see Inzoi opting for a once a year major world expansion pack release.

Minecraft does have the marketplace, and I think Inzoi could draw more from them than FFXIV. The marketplace is monetization of mods, so yes there are gameplay addons in there. From the horror to the cutest can be found on there. So technically minecraft is not selling gameplay, its the mod community selling the gameplay through minecraft, which I consider different b.c the company isn’t saying lets withhold this content from the game so ppl will buy this DLC. The dev just make whatever and the mod community just makes whatever their little hearts want.

I do agree that the biggest issue is not does a DLC have gameplay. But I think this is where we deviate. It works for FFXIV b.c of how it is designed as one functioning world of a RPG, they are not withholding content from you, they completed the expansion July 20th and you are buying what they just finished to expand the world.

In minecraft it works b.c its not the devs withholding something from you so they can upsell a DLC to you, its the mod community being creative and selling you their creation.

However Inzoi is designed like sims 4, owned by a major company like sims 4, has investors who want their money like sims 4 and kraftons reputation for monetization isn’t the most reassuring either. Toss in Cahaya’s release where they “tested” the waters with locking faster farming behind a DLC and you got yourself a case of “if it walks like a chicken and it clucks like a chicken, you probably got yourself a chicken” situation. Inzoi’s DLC will always ask, “what should we withhold from base game, to upsell this DLC” and this is my issue with Inzoi selling me gameplay.

I trust Inzoi to listen to feed back, but I don’t trust Inzoi’s ability to properly monetize gameplay content, which I think is fair enough based on the current track record of krafton and the Cahaya DLC. You can’t open pandora’s box if I never give it to you.

They don’t have to only monetize outfits, monetize extra emotes, collab with dancers to add dancing emotes, extra walking styles, monetize different backdrops for pictures like shining nikki does (not to confuse with infinity nikki), monetize more poses like life makeover, extra voice options, different types of suns for your world. They can monetize a lot of things without ever touching gameplay.

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48

I understand the trust concern better now. If your point is “I trust FFXIV’s expansion model more than I trust KRAFTON’s possible DLC model,” that makes sense as a concern.

But FFXIV still does sell gameplay expansions. Dawntrail includes new jobs, battle-system updates, new actions, a raised level cap and expansion progression. So I do not think FFXIV supports the idea that paid gameplay content is automatically wrong; it supports the idea that paid gameplay content needs to be substantial, integrated and not fragmented. So in that sense, they ARE withholding content, if you don’t have the expansion (Jobs, Story, Dungeons to name a few, that count as gameplay. I also played FF 14)

Also, about Cahaya: Island Getaway was free DLC. KRAFTON described it as free, and farming, mining, gem crafting and fishing were added as life-sim features across all maps. So I am not sure it is fair to use Cahaya as proof that KRAFTON already locked gameplay behind paid DLC, unless you mean a more specific feature I missed.

I agree with being cautious about monetization. I just think there is a difference between “do not trust fragmented Sims-style DLC” and “gameplay should never be part of an inZOI expansion.” The first concern is fair. The second feels too absolute to me.

Again as a note: I think we just have different views about it and that is fine. I think at this point, we might just keep circling. So we can agree that maybe our definitions and what we would see as a DLC just differ​:four_leaf_clover:

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No yeah I agree, at this point we can agree to disagree. I think we agree on most things, just a few things we branch off at, which is fair enough.

With the Cahaya release, from my understanding it was released as a free DLC, but it is uncertain that it will remain free, so Kjun added it to base game b.c he did not want that content locked behind a paywall if later down the line the DLC was monetized. Its the reason I do have some trust in Kjun’s intentions, but don’t trust krafton. I’ve been here before, and I’m not talking EA, many companies do this more often than not. And krafton hasn’t shown me any reason to believe otherwise.

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50

I honestly think I did not play any other Krafton games before, so I am neutral when it comes to that.

I can just hope that Krafton won’t destroy Kjun’s project with too much monetization and such, that is unjustified. There are already a lot of things inZOI does right and in my opinion, the passion from the dev team is there. We can only hope and see, what the future of the game will bring, especially once it fully releases.

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