Please restore the original Enneagram circle design + 4 original traits in the game! (with Discord links, scheme, and improvements)

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I’d like to archive some of the brainstorm posts from Discord here:
@GDfromRivendell 1. Discord , 2. Discord
@Starwing 1. Discord

It would be great if ”temperaments wrapped into the Enneagram circle” design was used in the game, likely with small card thumbnails with names around the circle: a central card and two wings. For each type’s fill, the appropriate card colors from early developer versions were used.

Enneagram Type original inZOI card color left wing center right wing
Type 1 Reformer (orange) Perfectionist Advocate Innovator
Type 2 Helper (purple) Volunteer Supporter Charmer
Type 3 Achiever (blue green) Socialite Catalyst Go-Getter
Type 4 Individualist (purple) Visionary Idealist Individualist
Type 5 Investigator (green) Explorer Radical Intellectual
Type 6 Loyalist (turquoise) Sentinel Questioner Collaborator
Type 7 Enthusiast (blue green) Adventurer Entertainer Troublemaker
Type 8 Challenger (blue gray) Outlaw Authoritarian Leader
Type 9 Peacemaker (green) Recluse Dreamer Pacifist

Copy-ready format

Type 1 Reformer (orange) – Perfectionist, Advocate, Innovator
Type 2 Helper (purple) – Volunteer, Supporter, Charmer
Type 3 Achiever (blue green) – Socialite, Catalyst, Go-Getter
Type 4 Individualist (purple) – Visionary, Idealist, Individualist
Type 5 Investigator (green) – Explorer, Radical, Intellectual
Type 6 Loyalist (turquoise) – Sentinel, Questioner, Collaborator
Type 7 Enthusiast (blue green) – Adventurer, Entertainer, Troublemaker
Type 8 Challenger (blue gray) – Outlaw, Authoritarian, Leader
Type 9 Peacemaker (green) – Recluse, Dreamer, Pacifist

Restored “temperaments”:

Volunteer, Collaborator, Entertainer, Dreamer

Additional “temperaments”:

“Temperament” Type Tagline Description
Advocate Type 1 (center) Principled and Grounded shines brightest when something feels unfair, notices what others ignore, and turns discomfort into clarity
Supporter Type 2 (center) Warm and Attuned shines brightest when someone feels overwhelmed, turns emotional weight into connection, and makes it easier for others to open up
Catalyst Type 3 (center) Bold and Magnetic shines brightest when someone slows down, needs to take initiative, and turn routines into shared momentum
Radical Type 5 (center) Unconventional and Insightful shines brightest when the usual way doesn’t make sense, flips the frame, and turns stuck thinking into movement and new possibilities
Questioner Type 6 (center) Septical and Loyal shines brightest when things need to slow down for safety, prefers certainty, and protects trust once it’s earned

Copy-ready format

Advocate (Principled and Grounded, shines brightest when something feels unfair, notices what others ignore, and turns discomfort into clarity)
Supporter (Warm and Attuned, shines brightest when someone feels overwhelmed, turns emotional weight into connection, and makes it easier for others to open up)
Catalyst (Bold and Magnetic, shines brightest when someone slows down, needs to take initiative, and turn routines into shared momentum)
Radical (Unconventional and Insightful, shines brightest when the usual way doesn’t make sense, flips the frame, and turns stuck thinking into movement and new possibilities)
Questioner (Septical and Loyal, shines brightest when things need to slow down for safety, prefers certainty, and protects trust once it’s earned)

inZOI_Enneagramm_Types_2
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Full Res: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1436355790586773696/1437011649956548608/IMG_2506.jpg?ex=6911b0e3&is=69105f63&hm=5363ac68a19e3ecfe7cf13203dd2e64dfef212abe48c209c2e90b707a51acf0c

Links:

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Thank you so much for putting together this information. The diagram is amazing because I can really see how that would look in CAZ.

I hope they’ll also add more details about each trait like they had before.

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I helped me choose the right trait when I already had a character in mind, and helped me imagine an entirely fresh character I was creating.

Knowing what values are the strongest for the trait is important to me. They change while you play the character, but I don’t know how to raise some of them. I don’t know how to raise traditionalist value for the new Idealist trait they put in the Dreamer’s place, for instance.

I’m sure that the addition of temperaments means some of the information displayed for each trait in the Enneagram circle, and the developers might want the temperament selection on the same screen. I think it’s possible to include the temperaments on the right side of the traits and temperaments screen in CAZ if they make the character’s image smaller on the screen.

I really hope they will restore the design, restoring traits that were replaced, and adding some new ones to balance things out. :folded_hands:

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Thank you as well for staying supportive, especially when, even being from gamedev myself, I’m clearly not some hype-driven Insta-psychologist, and complex frameworks like these aren’t exactly easy to push into the mainstream. But I clearly understand how difficult it is for you to fight for the right to preserve a game’s architectural integrity and memory, especially within the life sim genre. A well-structured personality model is exactly what defines this genre (with appropriate elements gradually layered on top), because in no other genre can you truly create a fully unique character.

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I do like this idea, though I can’t help wondering how easy it would be for the devs to code in 9 new traits and whether they’ll consider a total of 27 to be too confusing / overwhelming for players. I’m doubtful whether this is a priority for them right now, but either way, good work!

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Mostly, it’s about restoring the old traits, because, as we saw in Lenny’s post and the Cheat Guide, they simply overwrote the original traits with new ones, put into the same IDs. They didn’t replace the icons, at least not yet. So it’s a substitution: replacing instead of adding = rational; adding instead of replacing = irrational.

Same goes for some another aspects of the game: deleting or abandoning existing QoL mechanics to focus on new ones (potential post-release or DLC) = rational; properly finishing and prioritizing the old ones = not.

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No wonder so many members are asking to revisit and properly complete different undercooked aspects of the game.

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btw, originally IDs were named after the actual Enneagram types, and with each iteration, traits drifted further from their original meanings.

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Thankfully the lead developer wrote that personalities are a work in progress, so he’s open to changing it, and it sounds like the introduction of the two “negative” traits by removing existing traits might’ve been a temporary solution to satisfy the needs of players who want to play zois who are “bad.”

Obviously something needed to be done to improve the fun factor for those players, and I’m glad they did, but removing traits was the wrong way to do it, in my opinion.

I’m confused about why they chose to completely overhaul some traits that were unique, such as Dreamer. I can’t figure out what was “wrong” with it that they figured it needed to change.

But to your point about potentially having too many traits, I think a lot of players are coming from The Sims player base, and I have no idea how many traits are in Sims 4, but there so many in Sims 3. Some people really do get overwhelmed by a lot of choices when they create a character in a game they’ve never played, but I think adding the details back like they used to have (keywords, top traits, and brief description of the trait) will make it easier to choose.

That’s how it was when I first began playing inZOI. I didn’t know what all the labels meant within the game—even though I’m familiar the archetypes concept. The labels were self-explanatory in some cases, and the extra information helped very much!

Which of these is more helpful to a new player who has never created a zoi before?

Early Access release version:

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New version:

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I think it’s a lot harder to figure out what kind of zoi I’m creating now. Three lines of text that are vague leave me confused about which trait to pick when I’m trying to make a zoi unlike any I’ve played before, but one I will still enjoy. It’s been a real guessing game for me when I’m trying to find a new personality for both of my favourite zois who got robbed of their traits (a collaborator and dreamer).

I don’t know if the “Characteristics” aspect of the traits still exist and are modified by the temperaments/characteristics people pick, or if the characteristics have been removed. If it’s the latter, then they could leave that out completely, but still provide the extra information.

TL;DR: I think more traits with more (and clearer) information about the basic trait the temperaments modify will make it easier for most people rather than harder.

P.S. I’m not disagreeing with you, @Liessahl but rather, I’m just responding to potential arguments that it would be too confusing with more traits to pick from.

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Yeah, I was thinking more in terms of the ‘18 temperaments’ possibly being hardcoded into the game and difficult to change, which would explain why they replaced some of the old ones instead of adding new ones. I hope this isn’t the case, because I think suggestions which require less work are more likely to get implemented.

In terms of player confusion, it would help to have more visual distinction between the 9 base ‘types’, as shown in some of GDfromRivendell’s posts - and as you say, more details on each type of personality. But most importantly, the traits, temperaments or whatever you want to call them need to have an in-game effect that’s obvious to players. I wasn’t really seeing much difference between my Zois based on their Traits prior to the October update.

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How much zois differed from one another before definitely depended on the trait we picked (I’m just going by what the game calls them, as they appear in the screenshots because it’s a bit confusing if the new things are traits or not :sweat_smile: ).

They definitely needed more distinction, though, so I don’t disagree with that. In some cases, the biggest difference was in their values.

Perhaps they should let us pick the top 4 values of our zois. :thinking:

You certainly could be right about the 18 traits potentially being so baked-into multiple systems in the game. If that’s the case, I sure hope that Kjun will provide clear information about potential limitations when he responds to the latest round of feedback.

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THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH - @Starwing :custom_heart:

Immediately knew something was “off” in a big way but have not had a lot of time over the last few weeks… I made this post right after the update, but truly did not understand the major shift that happened in that update.:clown_face:

The ZOIs absolutely show more personality during gameplay, and that is cool. But not consistently and definitely not in line with the traits I chose. I do not mind some “silly” in a game but the recent update defintely seemed a step backward. Clumsy is such a surface level trait that it seems kinda ridiculous in comparison with others. I do enjoy the format of having the overarching trait and then getting to tweak it a bit with additional traits - just think there should be triple what is available and be allowed to choose up to 4 orsomething like that.

I believe that 27+ traits are NEEDED by the game in order to replicate the human experience, no other way around it.

If the idea was to allow others to create more “bad” ZOIs, then that should have been net new traits added to the spectrum of what was available. I am hopeful bc that is just who I am but also, I’d be lying if I say I wasn’t a little let down by “troublemaker” and the fact that 50% of the new babies in the game are “malicious” - seriously?>_< :psycat_upset: :woman_facepalming:

As always, @GDfromRivendell, appreciate your insight, helpful infographics, and basically your time that you spend helping us all wrap our brains around the complicated subjects. :100: :psycat_thumbsup:

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:glowing_star: :glowing_star: :glowing_star: :glowing_star: :glowing_star:

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‘Values’ are something of a mystery to me right now, and I wish the game would make more of them. There’s no indication of how or why these change, and I’ve only had one Zoi in all my games reach a 60 on any value (Love, in this case). After this, some new urges and interactions opened up to her, e.g. conversations with family members and listening to certain types of music. I’d like to see the equivalents for other values, but there’s really no way to track them in game.

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At least in version 0.3 and earlier, there was a value diagram that showed whether the scale had reached 60/100 (the threshold at which the value would start to actively manifest.) + the Enneagram prompted us which values would receive greater development after CAZ, and in version 0.1, certain values unlocked specific options, for example, Challenger unlocked things like “publish a selfie to Social Media (Bubbly).”
I didn’t get to explore all of them, but as the game updated, I kept finding fewer actions that could be completed using values from the IGN Guides. I don’t think I ever will.

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Regarding the enneagram, there is/was no response, not in this brainstorm, nor the last.

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The values diagram is still there, but there’s no indication of how much the values are changing or what causes them to change. You just get a notification whenever your highest value changes or when one of them reaches 60. I believe the value-specific options are still there but I’ve only seen that for one value (Love) so far.

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I miss that. This was soo fun !
Also you could go into the mirror as select show off muscles

I want this back too. Not as much as the pre-0.3.0 UI but I miss it a lot too !

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As much as I like the circular layout, I think the new version will be better for when they decide to add more options in the future. It means you can kind of have an infinite ability to scroll and see more trait cards.

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I hope you are right… they could start by re-adding the cards they removed.
We also need more positive sub-traits in the list. Right now they feel mostly negative with no redeeming values for those… They are just purely negative. The few neutral/positive sub-traits (They called them characteristics I think) are quickly used on my zoi and I have many which end up with the same characteristics.

Ideally we’d have both the circular Anagram, but with those characteristics on top.

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idk, to me, without grouping into the 9 core types and without proper grouping / explanations, it looks like a mash with no logic at all. I have no desire to enter CAZ with this misdesign, especially since I was already sold on the previous UI, which suited me perfectly. It’s rare for me to genuinely like something, taking my professional deformation into account. I’ve seen plenty of ruined UI concepts in games, but this one makes me angry.

Especially when I help others promote their favorites, and in return get a “you’ll manage” attitude.

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Totally agree with you. But getting through the devs for UI changes is an exercise of pure frustration.
As you know I’ve been trying since Cahaya to make things happen, and nothing, not a single acknowledgement even.

I really don’t known what else to do at this point.

/sadpanda

1 Like