[1.23.26] Karma, Luck, and Ghost Play Mechanics Chain

I’m glad we finally got to discuss the Karma system, because back then it was hidden and the silence felt like a heart hit.

What bothers me is the direct dependence of luck on karma. I’m recalling Lucia answering in prison, “Do you know why you’re here?” “Bad luck, I guess”, but still, I’d like to see both a bad lucky and a good unlucky, and in the end for consequences to come for bad deeds, but at what moments?

To solve this task, I turned to classic game mechanics, both computer and board games, particularly D&D, with Dice Roll or RND (random number generator). In our case these are simplified schemes, indirectly connected to the classics.


Karma + Luck

:yin_yang: Karma

= an internal counter of consequences. Its role is to determine the probability of different types of events:

Good karma → bright deeds, more stable opportunities, support / trust / coop, fair play, sustainable growth

Bad karma → shady deeds, more risky opportunities, betrayal, manipulation, shortcuts, temporarily profit

→ doesn’t punish or reward directly, only shifts the balance of probabilities


:four_leaf_clover: Luck

= the randomness of outcomes (RNG+modifiers – (un)lucky trait, (de)buff). Decides how an event that has already happened will end. Karma doesn’t control luck directly, but it influences what kinds of events can occur.

Good karma → an event like participating in a lottery. Luck decides whether Zoi wins.

Bad karma → an event like participating in an illegal deal. Luck decides whether Zoi manages to avoid punishment.


:high_voltage: Intervention

= social action that temporarily changes luck (e.g., for 24 hrs), influence Karma indirectly:

Compliment → increases luck but may lower karma if the compliment is insincere.

In a criminal context, this could mean that praise temporarily increases the chance of success. But since the compliment is insincere, karma decreases, and Zoi more often ends up in shady situations.

Scold → decreases luck but may increase karma if the reprimand is fair.

In a criminal context, this could lead to conflict. But if the scolding is justified, karma increases, and Zoi encounters bad situations less often in the future.

The player balances: short-term lucklong-term karma.


:hamsa: Hidden Effects of Karma

Good Karma

Positive Failures: even when Zoi loses (e.g., lottery), the outcome can be softened (friends support you, or new stable opportunities appear)

Bad Karma

Negative Successes: even when Zoi “wins” (e.g., a shady deal works out), hidden traps appear later (e.g., betrayal)


:compass: Karma Trajectory

= the direction in which the balance of karma moves

If the player maintains good karma for a long time, the trajectory of events gradually shifts toward more stable scenarios. If bad karma – toward more chaotic ones.


:church: Sacred Redemption

The player can attempt to “atone” for bad karma through rituals or offerings.


:link: Lucky Chain Reactions

= events start to influence each other through luck

A success in one event can increase luck in the next (the streak effect). A failure can lower luck

Example: Zoi wins the lottery (luck ↑). Next is a job interview. Thanks to the “streak” luck is higher, but if karma is bad, the interview may turn out shady (e.g., the company is fraudulent)


:red_envelope: Lucky Charm

Item/buff that increases luck


:cyclone: Twist of Luck

The player can increase the luck value in exchange for karma (manipulating fate).

Example: Zoi almost wins a deal but is short by one point → the player “twists” the luck, gains success, but karma drops


:game_die: Dice Shortcut Actions

Unlike default actions, Dice shortcut actions are resolved by a hidden dice roll that determines the outcome – luck + modifiers (traits, abilities, buffs). Ref: D&D, Disco Elysium, Paralives

Example: A police officer comes to arrest Zoi. Instead of going through a long legal process, the game triggers a hidden dice action. Zoi’s Luck, combined with their Authoritarian trait and Confidence, modifies the roll. The outcome decides whether their bold reply “You can’t arrest me, I haven’t done anything” convinces the officer to back off, or whether the situation escalates into a confrontation


:star: Luck + Reputation

= the external reflection of Zoi in the eyes of others. Reputation provides a modifier to luck

Example: Zoi has good karma but low reputation. They attend a meeting. Luck decides if they manage to persuade the people (Dice shortcut action). Even with good luck, success will be limited because of reputation.


Karma + Ghost Play

The thing I’d also like to clarify for now is how you see Ghost Play at different karma rating during life? According to the text in the ghost karma need hint:

Zoi’s actions in this life will leave results and accumulate as karma. The karma accumulated in life will act as a condition for reincarnation after death, determining the form and fate of the next life.

Put simply, the karma rating you accumulated determines the form (omg oO) and fate you’ll get in reincarnation (Fate Engine in action?).

But Ghost Play was also in the pre-Early Access version. Back then, when Zoi passed away, a message from Psycat would show up:

They have become a ghost, meow!
Looks like this Zoi is stuck with extra studies because of a bad karma rating, meow!

In other words, when playing as a ghost, you needed to earn the missing karma points to get a normal fate upon reincarnation, and Zoi shouldn’t turn into a ghost if their Karma is good?

Additionally, Ghost Play allowed you to switch to living Zoi family members, and for them Zoi ghost became invisible, and their gameplay loop and mission take place in parallel. As this concept felt more metaphysical, I’d like to know and explore more of its legacy mechanics.

4 Likes

Now it’s even more confusing about Karma. If the system becomes too complex and lacks a clear entertaining, game‑like orientation (meaning it punishes unconditionally, directly reducing luck in proportion to the karma scale, and so on), I’m afraid that players will disable it. Which is exactly what’s written: a potential contradiction between crime and karma would be resolved by reducing or disabling it…

The main point is that bad people are often luckier, and therefore, some aspects of bad karma should be beneficial for short-term luck. And therefore luck could be a separate gameplay element and a subject of bargaining, including the possibility of trading it for karma. Lucky chances (cards) with RNG have always been part of simulators and beyond, players are familiar with them, and they are a significant gameplay element. Karma, however, is not.

Perhaps in this case gambling would come into play, and it’d somehow affect the game’s rating, who knows.

Yeah, they really need some way to compensate for bad karma if they don’t want people to just disable it. Otherwise it’s just bullying people into playing a particular way, like the original system. At least they’re giving us options this time.

2 Likes

Flexibility in settings is good, but if the costs are comparable to a request for a mechanic. There’s no problem if for now they leave roughly what was there before, just not on a city-wide scale + with an option to disable. But putting more time into a similar “black and white” but way more complex concept… sorry, I think that’s unconvincing.

Luck, though, is an awesome mechanic. It’s basically a core of huge amount of games, from board games to computer. But they take a risk making it fall under a dominant Karma system, so it’d end up disabled too.

So please, inZOI Team, think carefully.